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128348-another-returning-player-reviews-june-2015
Content ---- ---- ---- =) | |} ---- ---- Hmm... possible spoiler here? | |} ---- I am going to take this to mean that Casual Raids are happening and that we'll see them in the next Drop. Saw it on the internet, must be true! QUICK! TO REDDIT TO VERIFY!!!! Edited June 22, 2015 by TexArcana | |} ---- We need to stop thinking that having casual raids means we won't have HARDCORE! raids. All you have to do is make the casual versions not only easier but also less rewarding somehow. That way the HARDCORE! still get the shinniest shinies faster than everyone else if they are good enough. Unless you are implying the core of HARDCORE! is actually having the shinniest shinies when nobody else can get them. Edited June 22, 2015 by Ildur | |} ---- Nah, that doesn't sound like TT's style. I think he's definitely shown an interest in casual feedback. For my part, I'm totally on board with casual raids- as long as they are not casual versions of the ones we already have. Which from what TT has said in the past, does not seem like a path they want to go down. And I still don't think I would call GA "hardcore". It *is* a raid and it requires scheduling, but it's attainable for anyone who can set aside the time for it (we do two nights a week). | |} ---- ---- You bring up a good point about Challenges and having the prompt might be the way to go for it. Regarding casual raiding and all that, I'm ok with whatever they're called or even if they're entirely new content (though that does seem like it'd require even more Dev work). Just that I enjoy raiding in SWTOR (and used to in WoW) and find Wildstar doesn't scratch that itch. Perhaps a solution is that if there's another new tier of raids, the old content (GA, DS) gets more casual simply by nature taking its course and everyone's gear getting better? | |} ---- The current raids are absolutely casual friendly. I raid once a week and have absolutely no problem managing the raid content, even in DS. The main roadblock to casuals is 2-fold... attunement, and the mentality that raids are too hard. I remember being absolutely petrified on my first raid. I literally was sweating IRL and my stomach was in knots. I had a TON of support tho, so it was easy for me to learn the fights. The great thing is that enough time has passed that every single fight not only has a you-tube video showing the fight, they have actual WALKTHRUS of the fights, so instead of trying to figure out why they're doing what they're doing, they explain why and how to do everything. Watching those made fights alot easier, as you get to skip the struggle of figuring out what's happening and how to counter it. As long as you can find a guild that is welcoming of casual raiders (hi, my guild does welcomes casual raiders!) then raiding casual is totally possible. I know we've done lots of fights with less than 20 players, tho having a full raid obviously helps. GA is pugged weekly on the Dominion side. I'm not a big fan of 10-man raids. They just feel like dungeons with more people to me. I think it's a harder thing to shoehorn between 5 man and 20 man. I do understand that's my own opinion tho. EQ2 had 2-group raids and I never, ever enjoyed them. They always felt bland, boring and too easy to bother with more than a couple of times or to run as a PUR. | |} ---- The quests were stream lined to a small extent, quests were also made more duo/group friendly with somewhat increased exp but, I think at most you gain 1-1/2 more levels than you normally would. So really, they didn't do much of anything really which makes me wonder what people were complaining about to begin with. Overall, they really did little to what you experience leveling up except in the first zones. As far as "casual raiding" (easy mode roll face on keyboard raids), it's a bad thing, it's not something I'd want the MMO I play to succeed in. It's almost like me saying I want hardcore shiphands/adventures that require raiding gear. It makes no sense. Edited June 22, 2015 by Naix | |} ---- ---- ---- I like the way they did Karazhan in TBC, the atmosphere was relaxed and some fights was funny and clever. TT and the rest of the dungeon team could make something similar and better for Wildstar and still give the "hardcore" audience a raid they can enjoy together with some one who is more casual then themselves. | |} ---- ---- =O 3 | |} ---- I actually liked a lot of the 2 group EQ2 Raids! I think 10 man Raids can be made a lot more demanding than 20+ player raids, it can require less screw ups and less people can be carried. I've always been a fan of smaller group raids. There's so much potential to make some really awesome hardcore raids. I never thought epic = more people. But to me Epic was the complexity of the dungeon and fights within. | |} ---- Damnit.... I was hoping you hadn't touched any of those x2 zones. TBH, WOE was probably the best of all of them, the last fight was amazing and some of the rooms were clever. But most of it was just "CUREFASTOMGYOUSHOULDBECASTINGBEFOREITEVENLANDEDHAHAYOUSUCK" and man I hated that. | |} ---- Huh... I understand a lack of casual endgame group content being an issue for the player base, but I hope that whatever's being cooked up makes things more accessible to casual players rather than watering everything down. The Organic Incinerator button in Initialization Core Y-83 was an elegant way to address this issue IMHO, hope to see more stuff like that and not something like LFR system with completely trivialized content. | |} ---- I feel you dude... Long time gamer here and this rush rush rush stuff makes me feel 2 things at the same time. 1. Its not W* but the latest Hollywood action movie called "Chase" where the entire film is one mega action packed chase scene. aka mad max'ed loony toons 2. but but but... i just did that now im... oh what... run... kill... click... adventure time.... RUN CUPCAKE................. Malgave VET RUN SUPPLIES sooooooooo far away...WALK now... walk walk walk walk walk walk...RUNRUN... caravan members dead, bronze again. What happen? | |} ---- ---- Questing is so much better when you learn to ignore the challenges :D or better yet, turn of the challenge addon and never hear CHALLENGE BEGINS................. CHALLENGE FAILED again. Quest in Peace | |} ---- ---- ---- This is what silver/gold medals were for, and why at launch some gear was only available if you got gold. To give non-raiding 5-man people something to shoot for. That didn't work out since it led to "gold or bust", but it was a good intention. As it is, you can still work on getting gold in all dungeons if you have a dedicated 5 man group that wants to do content without raiding. And more and more, getting into GA PUG groups is becoming a thing. You aren't guaranteed an Ohmna kill, but I think most groups these days can get down x-89, which is a huge step up in gear progression from vet dungeons (because it unlocks glory gear). Yes. I do like the "hit this switch to turn on hard mode" though, ala Sarth/Ulduar/Core Init | |} ---- ---- ---- I've been a big fan of this idea. Maybe not for "bosses" but for "wings". Liked you can queue up for the first floor. Then you can queue up for second floor. Then you can queue up for second floor without Phagemaw/Prototypes. Before you can queue up for the second or third option, you have to have completed the previous one (not in the week, but at least once per toon). And yeah, maybe make this only available for raids before the top tier raid. I feel like there is no reason that GA can't, at it's current difficulty, be casual fun. It won't be a cakewalk, but then that applies to all of the vet dungeons already available. But all the fights I've seen are definitely dooable by average, casual players if they could do it in chunks. And they are great fights that deserve to bee seen. Edited June 23, 2015 by SlyJeff | |} ---- ---- I am for sure somewhat biased, but yes--it is. At launch, it was definitely hard--but that's also because people's gear was hot garbage and none of us knew the best way(s) to DPS and play our classes. At this point, players have grown significantly in class power, knowledge of the game, and gear power. GA is pretty accessible now for any groups willing to put in a bit of effort. Also, with 3 minibosses and 2 bosses available the moment you zone in, there are plenty of targets to attempt to have success vs. | |} ---- it's not just about cost to produce- it's about burnout. When people end up running the same raids twice, they get tired of them. I do like the "harmode button" because it can intrdouce a breath of fresh air into an encounter once you are soundly destroying it, but I think that's different (at least, it felt different with Sarth and Ulduar) than having a whole different version of the entire raid. In a sense, the current raids already have something like this in the form of challenges. | |} ---- But to be fair, the second floor of GA is pretty much off limits to anyone who can't play on a schedule. I find this a shame, because Phaagemaw and prototypes are fantastic fights and certainly not out of reach skill wise for the average player. (I *love* GA the way it is and don't need it to change for my playing style, but I recognize most casuals aren't going to see anything on the second floor fora looong time unless they are being carried). | |} ---- ---- Some do- but casual players aren't experiencing the second floor without being carried. And most will not be invited to the kinds of pugs that clear it in two hours. And a two hour clear doesn't even do the zone a little bit of justice. I agree GA isn't #hardcore. But in it's current form, it's not a raid for casuals either. Edited June 23, 2015 by SlyJeff | |} ---- I soundly disagree. I don't feel my guild carries me, I contribute at all levels, even in DS. I raid once a week. My guild raids three times a week, with no required attendance. Anyone who casually wants to raid is welcome to pick which days work for them (even if it's different every week) and show up to raid, so long as they're putting in an effort to keep themselves properly geared and runed to the best of their ability. | |} ---- Fair enough. I wonder how many casual players are getting this same experience? | |} ---- Your have a good guild than. Most "raiding" guilds won't take casuals into the raids or someone that shows up once a week unless it's for farmed bosses and everyone is ok with it. I know a few raiders that get upset for people that show up once a week for easy stuff but isnt there for the progression bosses. Progression bosses isn't a let's wipe 10-20 times and than get it. No, progression is most of hte time 50+ wipes and multiple nights. The last bosses in the zones and SD in DS were not a raid one week and down it, it took multiple weeks for alot of guilds to down them. | |} ---- ---- ---- Once people have farmed Kuralak and have had a chance to experience Prototypes and Phagemaw, I don't see them being hard at all for pugs to get down. Prototypes is 75% about what the tanks are doing, 15% about standing in the flares, and 10% about making sure enough people survive to win. I agree that Convergence would be tough, but again, as general knowledge grows, I could see it happening. Like back in the day when no PUG could down STL and now almost ever PUG gets through and a lot get silver. | |} ---- ---- This is true- GA has been nerfed by power creep (and I'm sure this is intentional). As late as Juanary of this year we spent hours and hours working on X-89 as a guild and felt amazing when we got him down. Heck, we spent the whole first night on minis and the second on x-89. Now we can build a raid of alts with a ton of new players at be fairly certain we'll get x-89 down. It's a little embarrassing to tell people we spent so long working on x-89 the first time, so it's refreshing to hear it was a struggle for others back in the day :) | |} ---- Any group that knows the fight can kill x89. you can have every dps have 2k ap and still do it. That by no means makes it casual. It's farm content for progressed players even if said player is on an alt the mechanics don't change Edited June 23, 2015 by Boloz | |} ---- Fair enough. But isn't this the case of vet dungeons as well? I mean, you get 5 completely new players into Stormtalon and they are going to have a rough time of it. Add one experienced player in there who can give people some guidance, and it gets a whole lot easier. It seems x-89 is similar in terms of challenge. When we've done alt raids, we've had large number of people with no experience at all. | |} ---- ---- I disagree. They might take longer to get the fights down, but GA is doable in crafted/dungeon gear so there's no reason that anyone should feel like they aren't good enough to raid. I fail to see what "time restraints" would restrict the learning of fights. It does restrict how FAR you could get in GA in a single week, but in no way would it prevent you from doing it at all (unless you're a 30-min-a-day kind of player). | |} ---- ---- TT, I do hope that isn't any sort of hint of what's to come. | |} ---- Don't forget the class leads always buffing the class and giving raid about 20% dmg boost in drop 5 due to new raidwide buff mechanics | |} ---- Lots of us do actually. And as others have said... why do people keep posting these reviews here, in the game's forums - where everyone is already a member? Post this stuff on your blog / facehugger / google- / twithead / unLinked / spamTube account... Edited June 24, 2015 by Kichwas | |} ---- Good gracious I hope not... WoW's LFR... is not something I want to see in any other MMO, ever again. There are other ways to do casual raiding other than a random queue. The thing about random content is you specifically have to make sure it does not require too much coordination. If you want casual raiding... look to what happened during the PandaVille expansion with the addon oQueue, and OpenRaid. - We ALREADY HAVE that here. Go get the addon 'Group Finder'. That is basically oQueue for Wildstar. The ability to manually put together a PUG from players all across the game. OpenRaid was/is web-based, and this let people form PUG raids in advance. You go there, make an account, and look at the calendar of upcoming events and/or add your own events. - People sign up, you accept or deny them until you are full or the raid date passes without enough (but that never happened, raids usually filled really fast). - After the raid, you could go to the website and review every person who was in it, including the 'host'. And so people could then start adding / denying others based on info in those reviews. Mostly... you just scored them. We have oQueue here, in the addon Group Finder. We just need to mimic OpenRaid as well... People who remember it could also make something like the Guild Wars 2 gw2lfg dot net website... (I may be wrong in the URL, so I didn't form the link there)... It was so good, the GW2 devs essentially copied it into an in-game tool. The group finder now in GW2, is almost identical to it... And again... that tool is VERY similar to the Wildstar addon Group Finder. But LFR... NO THANK YOU. | |} ---- Hey in WoW now... your way of gearing up is either 1 million dailies to get points to get the missing item-level required to be allowed to enter the 6.2 raid... OR you buy gold off their cash shop... and use that gold to buy the gear from vendors... So now the only truly fullon pay-to-win western MMO, is also the only one not going F2P/B2P... :P | |} ---- I don't know what OpenRaid was, but I already have a website that allows for people to schedule and sign up for raids. It also allows people to organize the raids once they are in (assign groups and such). We use it in my guild and when we do Alt/Pug raids, however, it's not QUITE ready for the public yet (that is, right now only I have the power to create new raids). But I'm working toward getting it there for public use, if people will be interested. Here's an example (yes, I know the styling is definitely not cool- I'm not good at styling, but I hope to get some help in that area to choose colors that look less like a business app :) ) http://www.raidschedule.com/#/raids/lastchance | |} ---- This is where I guess the definition of "casual" comes into play. Many casuals will tell you they don't want easy, they just don't want to be constrained by a schedule. For these players, GA seems to be in a good place challenge wise, but much of the raids is completely inaccessible. Getting rid of instance wide lockouts would go a long way to addressing the needs of these players. I still consider myself casual. I commit to playing two nights a week on a schedule, and that's it. I play a great deal more, but I cannot commit to a weekday schedule. But anyway, skillwise I haven't seen a fight in GA yet (I've only attempted Ohmna once) that the average player couldn't execute without practice. I know one player who died for 2 hours on Trogun once because she couldn't dodge the discs. And now she lives through every fight in GA we've done and has no problem dodging the waves on Convergence (and in fact, is usually the last player alive if we get bad RNG with a smash and waves at the same time). Point is, GA doesn't need to be any easier, but casuals who enjoy the level of challenge in the current dungeons simply need the ability to see it. Earlier I said that breaking it into wings was the answer, but really I'm not even sure that's necessary. TT said that there are two bosses and three mini bosses available right from the start. It's true, and yet casuals aren't doing these things. Why not? The answer is because it's hard to find groups that would want to do that. And THAT is because no one wants to get locked to an instance that is only going to hit a few mini bosses and then be done. But if lockouts were per boss, then people could jump into a pug for quick casual Act 1 fun and have no concerns about getting locked to a dead instance. And once "we just want to pug one boss" raids start happening (as they would with boss lockouts), then people will start learning the fights and being able to progress. I think you'd see a lot more "LFM @ Phaemaw, no experience required" messages in /lfg. | |} ---- ---- Bwhahahahahaha! | |} ---- Take a look at open raid. It will give you an idea of what people have come to expect out of this kind of thing so you know what you will need to build up to: https://openraid.eu/main/home | |} ---- ---- Cool- I think most of this is in my long term "if I had all the time in the world" vision. Emphasis on long-term. As in, who knows if I will ever get it done. But being able to list raids, find people for them, and sign up for raids is part of it. Right now, if you click on your character you can already see all the raids you are invited to with the opportunity to sign up for dates. We use this because sometimes we do an ALT/PUG for people who missed our normal raid dates. The alt raid allows outsiders to add their names to the list. One thing that I think I am doing that I don't see on that site is my tools for raid organization (assigning groups). For example, it has baked in assignments for Kuralak: http://www.raidschedule.com/#/raids/lastchance/kuralak Now this is based on how does the fight (we use kuralakhelper and assign people to colors), which is why I've been working on an editor (not done yet) for people to create their own organization sheets. The idea here is that you can easily put together the info to show people what they are supposed to be doing, which I think is very helpful when teaching new people fights (even moreso for pugs). You can see my designer (work in progress- it doesn't save yet) here: http://www.raidschedule.com/#/raids/lastchance/assignmentsDesigner Right now my emphasis is first on making it meet my guild's needs, and then on making it workable for other guilds/pugs, and finally try to make it stylish. The first part I am extremely motivated to do. The rest . . . we'll see :) I do have a list sitting around of things I need to do before opening it up for other guilds. Once/if I get that done, I'll make it available for others and get feedback. Anyway, sorry for the derailment, but this *is* something I'm working on. Problem is, working on it takes away from coveted play time! | |} ---- If I make a lot of progress on my site there will be :D | |} ---- ---- The Addon "Group Finder" is you ingame solution for 'give me a raid / pug / dungeon / cosplay party now.' A website is better, when you want a scheduled raid. We've all seen MMOs with Calendars and I spent 5 years running a guild where most raids scheduled with the ingame calendar without ALSO using the guild forum and guild chat were failures progression wise. It always got the people who were less ready and less organized. A web tool lets you schedule it in the off-time, and have a bit of outside communication going on with regards to roles and special tasks, as well as getting people into your voice system easier... So... the ingame 'Group Finder' is basically the "super casual" option. And the web tool becomes the 'casual and don't have a raider guild' option. Actually done right, Slyjeff's web tool could be a MAJOR boost to the long term viability of Wildstar... as with the smaller population it will be some time until we can have more raiding guilds out there than there are people interested in raiding. And if people all go get the Group Finder addon... all casual / PUGing needs outside of scheduled raids... would be taken care of. - Should such an addon be integrated into Carbine's official addons? I don't know... having it be one you have to go get at least means there is a barrier of "player who is actually serious"... but also means that a LOT of the people who it is perfect for never see it... | |} ---- I completly agree, it would be a MAJOR boost to wildstar. Be huge for the player that can schedule a raid but doesn't want to or have the time investment to be in a guild. The reason be good to have in game, is it's your onestop shop. Also, big thing, group content outside of raids. Thinking group quests. Instead of spamming LFG, can setup that you want to do the group quests in blighthaven. | |} ---- ---- ---- im happy that this DONT mean multiple difficults of the same content, check the source here https://twitter.com/CRB_Timetravel/status/613055451937112064 Edited June 26, 2015 by Demonmanu | |} ---- ----